Waxworks has started video game leasing

[mcmarc]

Actually they are working through another company, but this looks promising mainly cause I can't keep up with the product.  You basically rent the game for a little over half of the retail price.  There's no revenue sharing, so you keep all the money, but at the end of the lease period you send the game back or pay more to keep it.

Sounds good, and I'm going to try it, so I'll let everyone know how it goes.  This could give us an edge with the next gen stuff coming out in the fall.


marc

[tnsherrie]

Hey Marc,
How has this program worked out for you? Never heard any updates. If good, I may be interested also.

[mcmarc]

Well, it was actually being done from a company out of Tennessee.  They never called me back, and ta hell with them, I say.


marc
orbit dvd

[moviesgamesetc]

If the company you're talking about is Pro Video, they do take a long time to return calls.
I talked to them concerning leasing games right after WW began working with them, as it sounded good to me to at first. It may work well for some people but the guy I talked to said for it to benefit me I would have to be bringing multiple copies of all the top games and formats, be spending a minimun of $500 a month on games and the rental price wastn't a little better than half it was 3/4ths and more. ( I don't remember the exact figure but it wasn't really worth the difference to me.) I wanted this to work big time but I can't afford to bring in that dollar quantity of games a month.
BTW, he said they would work with me at just about any monthly dollar amount I wanted but with the rental price so high --why would I?
I hope the figures have changed and this works well for those doing it.
Please keep us informed.

[mcsvls]

Don't do it, we worked with PROVIDEO for awhile and waxworks and the window of 12 weeks
was to short to make any money...! We ended up paying for it in the end. Months of buyouts
on the games or just sending them back and making nothing on the games. If you bring in a
$53.00 game, and you pay $25-30 bucks for it upfront, but you only make $25-30 in rental for
the 3 weeks you are done! You made nothing...! Now you have to just send it back or pay the backend cost of $20-30 more dollars to keep it.

I would avoid this unless you are crazy busy in video games and can't get enough
copy depth.

Mark S

[Retrofit]

I stopped renting games all together but push my Buy/Sell/Trade.  I tell the kids to buy the game, play it as long as they like, and I'll buy it back from them if it's complete and undamaged.  It took a while for the kids to figure it out, but I either sell a game and make money, or sell a game two or three times and make money.  Anything brought back without instructions or damaged I don't buy back.

Just an idea/different model to consider,

Chuck

[moviesgamesetc]

I've been wondering if this might be the way to go for us as well. Game rentals are practically nonexistant. I'm getting stuff like Super Paper Mario for Wii and God of War 2 for PS2 and they're just sitting there.
Could you give specific guidelines for how you do this, especially the trading part. Is it like they trade in 3 old games for 1 new one or what? I can't figure how that sort of business model would work.
You can pm me if you prefer.
Thx

[Retrofit]

I keep things pretty simple.  This is a basic Buy/Trade/Sell set up.

Typically I look at Amazon at the going price of a used game.  Let's say for example Halo is $25 new, $12.00 used.  I buy it for half the used price tops, in this case, $6.00.  Any scratches, any water stains, basically any reason to lower the cost I start taking a buck off.  Light scratchs, -$1.00, No book -$1.00, ect, ect.

I offer the person a price and they take it or leave it.  I have a petty cash fund and I pay for the games out of this fund.  I take a generic Bill of Sale, I have them write their name and address, sign it and I take a black and white photocopy of a legal ID.  On the chance that I'm buying stolen goods I've got a copy of legal ID next to their name and my Bill of Sale says they are responsible not me.

Then I resurface the games so they look new, I'll buy lightly scratched items and no one is the wiser after they've been cleaned up.  I own several large CD Cases, each holds 520 discs.  Each slot has a number.  I use a Sharpy and I put the disc location inside the Game case.  I look up the price of the used game at Amazon and compare it to SecondSpin.com.  I decide what a used price is, label it, and throw it in the Buy/Sell/Trade section of my store.

When a kid buys it, I open the case, see the number and go to that slot in the CD Cases I have behind the counter.  None of these items are in my inventory.  They move to fast and since I'm not renting them I don't see the point.  They all sell generically as "Game" and I manually type in the price of the item.

The kid buys the game.  If they want to sell it back, I make them an offer just like the first person.  Let's say I bought Halo for $3.00 I sold it for $12.00.  A kid buys it, keeps it for a month and sells it back to me.  I look it up again, if it's price has dropped I buy it for less, $2.00 or a buck, whatever.  The kid can think he 'rented' it for $10.00 for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, for two months.  He got a 'deal'.  Good for him.  If it's worth selling again, I buy it back and toss it on the shelf again.  If it isn't worth selling I apologize and say I can't take it.

My 'Trade In' is basically for store credit.  I'll give them more money if it's store credit.  This I keep simple as well, I round up to a $5 increment.  So if it's $21 worth of stuff, I say $25 store credit.  $26 rounds up to $30.  The fact that these kids can keep things for a day or two months, they think it's cheaper.  Compared to renting it is, but I don't buy new games any more and I don't buy games that don't work, and I don't have returns that don't work.  So the whole premise of investing in games to break even is sort of gone in my store.  My games make money.

My one problem with the system is I tend to sell more games than I have so sometimes my shelves look bare.  That's because when a good game comes in it gets sold right away and what's left are the dogs, which still sell, just slower.  I've considered buying a 'lot sale' on ebay just so I have more to offer at any one time.

The problem with this system is you don't have New Release Games unless people bring you New Releases.  So if you have a strong game base and people want New Release Games just as bad as they want New Release Movies, this won't work for you.  My games never took off and later I got rid of them all together.  I suppose I could buy New Release games and just sell them at a retail price.  That might be what you were getting at for the trade 3 for 1 New One.  Given that I buy games for $2 to $3 and a new Game costs $60ish, I wouldn't do that.  I'd offer them store credit which they can use towards a new game, an old game, candy, whatever.

Old Games in terms of buying them, are virtually worthless.  Just today I had a guy telling me I was way to low on my offer and I showed him the prices on line.  I said this game BRAND NEW is $19.00, used $8.00, "I'll give you $4.00".  He said something like "I just bought it for $25.00".  Sorry dude, you paid to much.  Buy low and sell for a fair price.  The price of games drops fast, so I never price high.  I want them in and out of the store as fast as possible.

Last point in this LONG message.  I've gotten in several PS3 games which always sell fast, but I haven't bought one Wii game.  I don't know what this means.  Is it that people are keeping their games or that no one is buying them?  To soon to tell.  Hope all of this helps.

Material to consider.

[moviesgamesetc]

Thx, for the rundown, Retrofit
Very informative.

Is this what everyone does? Anyone have other ideas?

[Hardcopy]

Ooh second spin is nice. I am adding that to the intranet page.

Ok done. I did it a little different because it is a what we will pay price.

The formula for those interested is:
(int(($amazonprce + $secondspinprice)/2) * $discount)

$amazonprice = used price on amazon
$secondspinprice = price secondspin will pay for a used game
$discount = whatever discount you used during the setup of the intranet

[moviesgamesetc]

Retrofit, what is your average markup percentage for your sales?
I've taken some types of games in on trade that I don't rent in my store, PSP and Nintendo DS to name 2 and I'm thinking of beginning my buy sell trade with these but I don't know what markup is fair and will give me a quick turn around. I "paid" only about a dollar a piece because I took them in with some other dvds and such.

[Retrofit]

Well I don't try to think to hard so what I typically do is use Amazon's used price or Second Spin's price, or an average of the two.  I would look at Amazon's used price and match it or go lower.  If the price is super low, like .50 or $1.00.  I'd sell it for $3.00  That's as cheap as I get.

I wish I had a specific formula, but I don't.  Amazon is very good at reflecting what customers are willing to pay.  However these are on line shoppers that often look around for the best deal.  I've always considered Amazon's price a "Demand on the Internet Price".  My experience is Second Spin is more of a comerical resale price.  They reflect the price you might find at a Resale Store such as a Disc-Go Round.  They are more prone to being a higher flat fee rather than Amazon's customer demand method.

For example I think Second Spin priced Fat Albert's Greatest Hits at (guessing here) $34.00 for the box set.  I went to Amazon and found it going for $80 bucks.  I wondered why so high?  I surfed the net and found out it was out of print, "Rare" to some buyers who consider it valuable.  These collectors are willing to drop cash for it, rasing the price while Second Spin doesn't care. A box set is worth "This or that".  Now you have to make a call, can I even get $34 for it if I put it on the floor?  Can I get $80 for it if I put it on line?  If I put it in the store I'd try to $25, but I think I can get more on line so I'm going to try sell it for less than Amazon's $80 but more than $25 in the store.  Sometimes it's situational.

Right now I've got a lot of old games in the store.  I've got them priced at $3, $5, $10, $15.

I probably paid $.50, $1.5-$2, $2.5-$4, and $3-$5 for the above.  The three dollar games suck.  These are ancient terrible games.  The savy game player won't even touch them.  However the seven or eight year understands price and doesn't care about quality and I've got those at "Seven Year Old Eye Level".  They jump up and down and tell their parents "It's only THREE DOLLARS!  Can I get TWO?"  And their parents agree because it's only $6.  So don't dismiss old crappy games. 

For a more current example, last night someone brought in NBA Live 07.  I was so happy because A)It's a sports game B)It says "07".  This game will sell fast in my store.  You can look this game up at both web sites.

At Amazon the used price is $19.00  At Second Spin $22.99.  Second Spin will buy it $10.00

I bought it for $7 for a few reasons:

Half the Amazon rate would be $9.50.  I hate to spend $10 bucks for a game so I start looking for reasons to drop it's price.  The game had a sticker marking "used" so I knew the guy didn't buy it new he probably bought it for $19ish, so I knew he'd settle for less.  It was lightly scratched, but the guy is also a regular.  So I said, "It's scratched 'a lot', but your a regular and I 'think' I can fix it.  Seven good?"  He agreed.  I probably could have bought it for $6 or maybe even $5, but if you treat your regulars well they will be a consistent source of games for you.  So I gave this guy one or two more bucks than I'd like.  This guy consistently brings me sports game and that's great for me.

I priced it at $18.00

Because it's "07" it's a new game and because it's a sports game (they do well for me) my guess is it will be gone by Friday or Saturday night (it's Thursday today).

I've had my Buy/Sell/Trade set up for about 5 months now and it's helped my numbers.  No, it doesn't pay the rent, but it adds to the bottom line.

When Chicago Tom visited my store he talked about a store having 'many legs to stand on' and this is definetly a 'leg' in my store.  It's a wobbeling leg, but it's there and I need to work on it so that it's a 'strong leg'.

I was at the IDEA meeting in Chicago and several store owners talked about how they sell items on line, at Ebay or Amazon.  This is probably the next thing I'm going to dabble with.  I may be able to sell some items for more on line than in the store.  Like the Fat Albert Box set, so this weekend I'm going to pull a stack of items and put them on line and see how that works out.

Last item on the games is when people in my store see Buy/Sell/Trade they never seem to get they can sell them back.  They just think "Buy".  Whenever people ask if I rent games I say, "No, but you can buy it, play it, and SELL IT BACK to me when your tired of it.  You can keep it for as long as you want and I don't have a damage problem."

You really need to push that idea, or they won't get it.  I still mainly sell and don't buy back, but I've got a few kids that are finally becoming regular "renters".  They cherry pick buying the games they want to keep and selling back the dogs after trying them out.  I have to say when I started, I had ZERO games.  One of my regulars sold me four games and I tossed them on the shelf and people would look at them and just have this "Your kidding?" look on their face.  Eventually more games came in than went out (because people tend to sell in bulk) and I was able to fill a shelving unit.  I just cleared to two more shelving units to expand the game area.

If you currently rent games, you have a stronger position than I had starting out.  You might want to convert some of the old games that you just want to get rid of to 'Buy Only'.  If someone wants to rent it, explain the Buy/Sell method.  "Buy it, play it, and we'll buy it back if it's still good."  As more of your games get old, start converting them over, and maybe slowly turn them all to "Buy/Sell".

It's all food for thought.  Hope it helps.

[wevie]

I found this if it would be any help.  Maybe if anything else, it would save time.

http://www.specialtystoreservices.com/services/GameGenie2.aspx?utm_source=GameGenie&utm_medium=banner

[Retrofit]

There is no reason to pay for a pricing service for TWO reasons.

A)Hardcopy offers a FREE pricing service at this web site.

B)If you price games for a month you will be able to price games in your head and won't need a service paid for or free.  Unless a game is BRAND NEW it's worth .50 a disc.

MUCH has changed since my old posts.  .50 a disc.  That's it.

Chuck

[PSV]

Dropping games was a huge help for us, too much money and not enough game rentals no matter how much we pushed it. Was waste of money for us.